Who wants a FREE track rollbar for your convertible?!?

[BlimeyCabrio]

I've been investigating the availability / viability of a SCCA/BMWCCA approved rollbar for MINI convertibles for track use. As far as I know (and I've posted about this on NAM previously) there is no available "standard" bolt in rollbar for our convertibles - such things DO exist for MINI coupes and for many other popular track convertibles (e.g. Miatas).

I got a response today from Bethania Garage, makers of very popular rollbars for Z3's and Miata's, who happen to be based in Winston-Salem:


Yes, we are VERY interested in doing a bar for the Mini. Time has been against us as we've luckily been busy but we need to get with the program.
It always takes longer than I would like to design a new bar, build prototypes and jigs but If someone is willing to part with their car for about a month they'll get a free roll bar out of the deal. So... does anyone have a MINI convertible they could live without for a month? Or do you know someone who would be willing to loan their convertible for up to a month for a free rollbar? This is a great deal for someone with a "weekend" convertible that mostly stays parked during the Summer (or winter) months...

Please let me know if you think of any candidates!!!

[N2MINI]

I wish I could. I live about 25 minutes away, but this is my only car.. Could go by for them to get measurements if no has a loaner for them..

[BlimeyCabrio]

You and I have the same "problem" in this regard... :)

[Catseye]

If he needs a coupe, he can have mine for a month......

[Max Headroom]

Hmmmmmm...........I may have to talk to the wife about this. One design requirement would be that the automatic ragtop would have to be able to clear it comfortably. I have no use for a "fair weather only" roll bar. I have no problem with the back seats having to be permanently removed. PM me the info and I'll talk to Laura about it.

Gary

[minimark]

Gary the best way to proceed would be for you to call them directly at 336 922-3018 and talk to them about the logistics etc.. Please advise us back here on how the conversation went.;)

[BlimeyCabrio]

I'll send you the info.

Probably makes sense for us to discuss "requirements" here.

Requirement #1 for me.... MUST be easy to bolt in and out... without major work under the car. Which would imply that whatever reinforcement plates or nuts that go under the car can be welded there and left in place when the bar is removed. My car MUST have a usable back seat 90% of the time, for kid hauling.

Nice to have #1... ability to raise/lower top with bar in place. But until someone who knows what they're doing actually measures the car, driver, roof in various stages of retraction, etc. we don't even know if this is possible. While it's certainly possible to put a bar in that clears the roof, it may NOT be possible to put one in that clears the roof that's also tall enough to meet SCCA / BMWCCA requirements with a tall driver...

I've heard a couple of different requirements... the "broom handle" test that says the top of your helmet must be below the line connecting the windshield header and the bar, and a different requirement that the line must actually run from the top of the strut towers to the top of the bar... (which means a pretty darn high bar)....

Of course, if both easy in/out and easy up/down are possible, I want BOTH.... as would any sane person. :)

[Max Headroom]

Unfortunately it looks like the logistics of having just one available car between us for a month won't work (no big surprise). Oh well.

Gary

[Catseye]

...I've heard a couple of different requirements... the "broom handle" test that says the top of your helmet must be below the line connecting the windshield header and the bar, and a different requirement that the line must actually run from the top of the strut towers to the top of the bar... (which means a pretty darn high bar)......
Here are the requirements for THSCC and SCCA (http://thscc.com/timetrial/nonhtml/Tech_GuideV4_2006_Final.pdf) (Section 6.2)

[BlimeyCabrio]

I got a response from Chris Schimmel at Competition Cages.... short version, not interested in trying to work out one from scratch.... but happy to copy somone else's design and improve upon it :rolleyes:

[minimark]

That's big of him.....:rolleyes:

[onefastmini]

There are certainly drawbacks to installing a rollover bar in a cabrio, to be safe, it would have to be permanent and that would interfere with the soft top. The only way I could see doing it properly would be to make a dedicated track car and keep it open. With that in mind, you are much better off with a coupe for the lighter weight and stiffer body.

For anyone interested in a bar for their coupes, please keep in mind that I am an Autopower dealer and have a guy that does full welded custom cages for me. Not to dis Hard Dog, their stuff is nice.

--Dan

[BlimeyCabrio]

to be safe, it would have to be permanent and that would interfere with the soft top. The only way I could see doing it properly would be to make a dedicated track car and keep it open.

I know we talked about this before and that was your take on it... is your view that ALL bolt-in cabrio bars are inherently unsafe (e.g. Miata and M3 bars) or is there something specific to the MINI cabrio that makes you believe a bolt-in bar is impossible in this car?

[MidnightDave]

May I do a minor hijaak for a moment?

If you put a rollbar in your street car and get in a wreck, and presumably don't wear your helmet all the time, isn't there the potential to split your head open like a grape?

So...you go with a bolt in so you can take it out when not at the track? Or do you do a bolt on so you don't have to weld inside your car?

[BlimeyCabrio]

Depends on where the bar is in relation to your head and your seat headrests.... quite a few folks drive street cars with cages... good idea to pad the cage WELL...

But for cabrios with a back seat.... "bolt in" is primarily so it can be reversible for daily driver / passenger hauler use... put the bar in for track weekends...

[Catseye]

There are certainly drawbacks to installing a rollover bar in a cabrio, to be safe, it would have to be permanent and that would interfere with the soft top. The only way I could see doing it properly would be to make a dedicated track car and keep it open. With that in mind, you are much better off with a coupe for the lighter weight and stiffer body.

For anyone interested in a bar for their coupes, please keep in mind that I am an Autopower dealer and have a guy that does full welded custom cages for me. Not to dis Hard Dog, their stuff is nice.

--Dan
Most feel that when installed according to SCCA guidelines, bolt-in is a very acceptable means of installing a roll bar.

[onefastmini]

May I do a minor hijaak for a moment?

If you put a rollbar in your street car and get in a wreck, and presumably don't wear your helmet all the time, isn't there the potential to split your head open like a grape?

So...you go with a bolt in so you can take it out when not at the track? Or do you do a bolt on so you don't have to weld inside your car?

So you don't have to weld. A bolt in bar is usually considered permanent and would require major disassembly to remove, not something you would want to do in between track events. For coupes, you can have the harness bar and diagonal removable, and this only takes a few minutes, so it is reasonable, and YES, you could split your head open like a grape if you were in an accident on the street without proper padding.

Blimey, I don't think that it is impossible to make a removable bar for the cabrio safe, but there would be limitations due to body structure and sacrifices made to interior trim, so you would have to be willing to live with that. There would need to be permanent attachment points that may interfere with putting trim back in. There is not much room in between panels. I also think that the cabrios poor rear visibility is also a concern on the track. Perhaps if the ragtop did not stick up so high when down, I would not even think to mention this. I will talk to the guys at Autopower and see if they plans to build something, if not, maybe we can twist their arm. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying, or sound like a downer, you know I live for this stuff:D
--Dan

Yes, I just contradicted my last post :rolleyes:

[BlimeyCabrio]

It's all good... :)

[Catseye]

.....and YES, you could split your head open like a grape if you were in an accident on the street without proper padding.....
Which brings up another consideration:
Although not mandatory (yet), stock seats on most cars are prone to distortions and outright failures in heavy impacts, which means that no matter how well padded and positioned, there is a real potential for head to bar contact, which no matter what padding you may have, your unprotected head will incur a serious smack. At some point, there may be a requirement to have racing seats whenever a roll bar is used, and it's probably a very good idea anyway if you are going to be on the streets with a bar in the car........

[onefastmini]

Which brings up another consideration:
Although not mandatory (yet), stock seats on most cars are prone to distortions and outright failures in heavy impacts, which means that no matter how well padded and positioned, there is a real potential for head to bar contact, which no matter what padding you may have, your unprotected head will incur a serious smack. At some point, there may be a requirement to have racing seats whenever a roll bar is used, and it's probably a very good idea anyway if you are going to be on the streets with a bar in the car........

That is an excellent point. Has everyone seen the damage to the seats in my car? I will try to post a pic if I can find it. The amount of distortion even in a 50 mph impact such as the one my car endured is nothing compared to hitting an armco at 90+. There is also no safe way to use an anti-submarine strap with the stock seats, and some clubs are not only requiring 5 pt harnesses, but most are looking to make 6 pts the minimum.

[onefastmini]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn285/grgracing/DSC01746.jpg