New Rubber!

[laardilla21]

So, I got some new Continental ExtremeContact DWSs in a 215/45/17.

I have had these on since Monday afternoon. I am still breaking them in, so I have not really pushed them super hard yet.

I like them, but the one complaint I have is how squishy they make the ride feel. It is like I am riding on jello sometimes. I am going to bump up the tire pressures a bit to see how that helps. I will get a better idea of how they are once I get to use them on a good run.

Anyways, here are some pics, enjoy!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5219/5492638524_8f14039c78_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jahorsley/5492638524/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5492637948_b1519e16d6_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jahorsley/5492637948/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5132/5492041733_b1b3c82080_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jahorsley/5492041733/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/5492637022_c99430c7cd_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jahorsley/5492637022/)

[colejd]

What was the pressure you had them at?

[laardilla21]

Well, the place that put them on did not make me very happy. They are the best tire place in Charleston, but they HATE MINIs with a passion. They set them at 35, which I told them was low, and they said they put them at 38 for me. I went to get the alignment rechecked yesterday because I noticed during Helenblitz that the steering wheel was tilted to the left in the straight ahead position. They could not fix it because of the new springs, but it is ok. They checked the pressures and they were still at 35. Ugh. They put them at 38 for me. From what I have read on NAM, most people run the 215 Conti at like 40.

[minimark]

Exactly why could they not center the steering wheel because of the springs?

[laardilla21]

They said there was not enough adjustment. They, as in MINI of Charleston, told me the only way to get it back straight was to change my alignment specifications. I guess the new front springs increased the front camber, which made it not possible to straighten it out. The guy that did the alignment originally and yesterday knows both me and my car. He would have definitely tried everything he could to get it right for me, if he could.

[minimark]

What springs do you have, never heard of anyone with this issue? I have TSW springs and there has never been a problem with the steering wheel out of center.....

Springs wouldn't change the camber that much, besides I have adjustable camber plates with -2.30 (a lot) camber and my wheel is centered perfectly....

Do you have the print out of your suspension settings?

[laardilla21]

I have the NM lowering springs. No one else with them has complained about this, so I am thinking either my car is a fluke, or something is up. Haha.

[minimark]

Hate to say it but think your alignment Guy is up...lol

Not all alignment technicians are equal, the machines they use are only as good as the user... 2 cents

[laardilla21]

It is whatever. I had this issue on my old neon, but it could not be fixed because of the rust from winters in Massachusetts. It is only off a tiny bit. I dealt with it all weekend running the twisties in north GA for Helenblitz. If it gets super annoying I will check elsewhere.

[wildcrazy442000]

The tread squirm will get better as the tires wear. I think you should try Sneed Speed shop, I have the TSW springs they did a four wheel alignment for me with THMMC discount for 65 bucks.

[minimark]

That's cool! An uncentered steering wheel as just always been one of my top 10 pet peeves....lol

[laardilla21]

Agreed. I just do not want to pay another shop to have it done again, for the 3rd time. Haha.

[slimjimtell]

I warned you about these tires...they are like driving on mashed potatoes! In hard turns i would swear the tire was rolling over and my wheel was gonna scrape. They also veered all over the road at highway speeds. This was the exact reason I bought mine from discount tire (cheapest price) and a guarantee if you don't like them, they will replace with something else. They did just that for me! Replaced with Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sports...love them, firm, grippy handle very well in rain. They actually did pretty well in our several snow storms this year.

Be careful about just increasing your preasure as this can high spot the middle of the tire and wear unevenly, as in right down the middle of the tire. I can tell you, they won't get firmer as someone referred to in an earlier post. Your not going to make a soft comfort tire perform much better by "pumping it up". That is the nature of this tire...soft ride, not a great pick for someone like yourself that likes to drive it a little harder than most.

They spec this tire on a lot of sedans such as Camry's and accords. I fell into the hype on these as they truly were not my best pick of tire for my Mini or my driving style.. They do make a DW tire that I understand is a little stiffer.

[jcauseyfd]

I'd say the DW is a tiny little bit squishier than the Yoko S.drives I had. Not really a bother to me driving on public roads (though I haven't gotten super crazy with them on any runs), but I could feel them roll over a couple times at VIR for the Holiday Laps. Some of that is b/c I have a tall profile (55s).

Unfortunately, since losing the RFs, I've only been running summer tires, so I can't comment on how the summer versions may compare to the all seasons.

[laardilla21]

They are not horrible, but I did not want to add the extra weight with the Yokohama ENvigors. I also did not want a summer spec tire. I will live with them. Haha. The mashed potato thing is definitely interesting. I will throw them into a corner eventually and see how things go.

[Bully]

I noticed right after I got my DW 's that they felt much squishier than my run flats and I thought they had a lot of roll to them... now,... I really don't notice it as much, once they've broken in and started to grip better I really like them, I think you'll get used to them to some degree. I don't regret my purchase.

[Girliebird]

They are not horrible, but I did not want to add the extra weight with the Yokohama ENvigors. I also did not want a summer spec tire. I will live with them. Haha. The mashed potato thing is definitely interesting. I will throw them into a corner eventually and see how things go.


What do you mean about the extra weight of the Yokahama's? I haven't ordered my tires yet. This thread is making me reconsider on the Continentals. I take most turns really hard. I would prefer something firmer and not like the tire is rolling. I've been driving RF for 3 years now, so I'm used to firm. I thought this time I would switch to regulars. So squishie and rolling is not so good for me.

[minimark]

Great all season tire is the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S. Last forever, silent and handle really well rain or shine. We have like 40 thousand miles on them on Joan's BMW and they still have life. ;)

[slimjimtell]

You'll get used to them. I do have to say, they are quiet!

:warning: warning...these tires go well with gravy!

[jcauseyfd]

Mel,

You'll be battling the continuous compromises that have to be made with regard to tires. The stiffness of the RFs are a double-edged sword. On one hand they produce a rougher ride because they are stiffer than non-RF tires. On the other hand, they are going to perform better on things like turn-in because they are so stiff they resist rolling over like non-RFs will do. Always pros and cons.

That is why you will see people trying to go with lower profiles on non-RFs - to try to eliminate the squishiness. A lower profile means less material to flex. But a lower profile often means you will want to go with a larger size wheel - e.g. moving up from 16 to 17 to 18. Each change in size has it own set of pros and cons.

And I haven't even touched on things like tread materials and designs. Suffice it to say that imo, the change to a summer compound had way more positive impact on cornering than the increased squishiness resulting from a change to non-RF (and I even increased my sidewall slightly going from 195/55 to 205/55). The downside was a slight decrease in mpg.

Always two sides to the coin.

[BThayer23]

Well said, Mr. Causey.

[Girliebird]

Thanks Jeff. That is a lot to think about. My head is spinning! LOL Right now, my front tires are pretty slick at 8,800 miles. When I turn corners, I'm not gripping well and I'm skipping across the road. Like Johnny, I'm going with the 215/45/17. I currently have 205/45/17. I read that the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus has less roll than the Continentals. Anyone out there have the Michelin Pilot's and can provide feedback on them? From the Discount Tire site, these seem to be long wearing tires. But like you said with trade offs, I wonder what that is on these tires. I want something that will last me all season, last longer than 8,800 miles and give me the grip I need on turns.

[minimark]

No all season tire will give you the grip that a maximum performance summer tire will of similar quality. The amount of roll a tire has, is dependent on a tire's sidewall construction. Usually the softer the ride, the softer the sidewall and vice versa. The very best handling tire I have used so far that is street rated is the ADO8. But don't expect a long term relationship with them or the softest of rides.... Like Jeff said, everything is a compromise.

[jcauseyfd]

When I turn corners, I'm not gripping well and I'm skipping across the road.

You need to fully understand why that is happening then in order to make a good decision on your tires.

If you are losing traction due to road surface issues and your stiff tires are losing contact, then some increased flex would probably help. But understand you'll be introducing increased chances of the tire rolling over.

On the other hand, if you are losing traction because you are entering the corners too hot and just exceeding the grip of your tires, then you probably want to focus more on the tire compound and go with something with more grip. The tradeoff is going to be a shorter life span for the tire.

On a sort of related note, if you are burning through your tires as quick as you indicate and having trouble with the car pushing through corners to the point you are losing grip, I'd suggest you get into an HPDE. That will help you figure out where the limits are and not exceed them (hopefully) as every time you do, you are slowing yourself down and using up your equipment. Goes back to that whole idea of understanding why your car is pushing through the corners.

[Miniboomer]

Mel,
I put Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires on on my MCS last September (about 5,000 miles so far). I started with the run flats and then moved to the Yoko S drives and now to the Michelins. I like the Michelins the best. Traction is great in rain and the snow, much better than I felt the Yokos provided. I have not done any track type driving with the Michelins but I have taken many a sharp corner and I have been pleased with the handling and the grip. They are also much quieter than the Yokos so far. The warranty is 45,000 miles so I expect more than the 20,000 or so I got from my previous Yokos and run flats. The cost was a bit higher at about $150 at Discount Tire.

[minimark]

You need to fully understand why that is happening then in order to make a good decision on your tires.

If you are losing traction due to road surface issues and your stiff tires are losing contact, then some increased flex would probably help. But understand you'll be introducing increased chances of the tire rolling over.

On the other hand, if you are losing traction because you are entering the corners too hot and just exceeding the grip of your tires, then you probably want to focus more on the tire compound and go with something with more grip. The tradeoff is going to be a shorter life span for the tire.

On a sort of related note, if you are burning through your tires as quick as you indicate and having trouble with the car pushing through corners to the point you are losing grip, I'd suggest you get into an HPDE. That will help you figure out where the limits are and not exceed them (hopefully) as every time you do, you are slowing yourself down and using up your equipment. Goes back to that whole idea of understanding why your car is pushing through the corners.

....and there are also mechanical ways to reduce the understeer (push) in the corners. IE: stiffer rear sway bars, camber plates, etc..

Also having clear understanding of the affects of weight transfer and the traction circle and how to use that understanding when driving through a corner, can an will dramatically effect the very same tires performance...

The reason Micheal Schumacher could get in my car and turn a faster lap than I could, would be because of his ability to consistently drive the limits of the traction circle in every situation...

[Medevack1]

I have the same NM lowering springs and im running 225/40/18 KDW BFG and i dont have any issues what so ever, the steering is perfect the tires are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STICKY....

[birdman13]

If you all are coming from RFs to any Non RF they are going to feel more squishy in both ride and turn in (tire rolling). You will get used to that after a few times going in to corners with some speed. Since ditching my RFs I am still trying to find a good compromise of longevity and performance. My MINI is a DD and I drive a lot so I need longevity which has led me into the A/S tires - Just took off a set of Goodyear F1s - didn't really like them (loud, uneven wear), but they handled well and the sidewalls were pretty stiff. I just put on some Falken Ziex 512s - wanted to try these out as they are inexpensive and I have used 3 sets on my e30 with good results. I have about 3,000 miles on them and grip seems good, but they definitely have a softer side wall. You really can get used to what ever tire you have - that first corner at speed is a little unsettling - but you adjust.

Anyway - OP I haven't heard about the steering wheel not centering either - hope you get that worked out and something isn't wrong with your suspension setup.

[minimark]

Exactly why a good while back I bit the bullet and purchased a set of track wheels, run high performance sticky tires on those and a good set of longer lasting tires on my s lites. Change them out as what I'm going to do with the car demands. It was a bit more money up front but I don't wear out my daily tires on the track or on fun runs and I don't wear out my sticky tires going to work and back and to grandma's house.. ;)

[laardilla21]

Wow. This thread has lit up since I last checked it yesterday.

I am getting used to the Continentals. I use my car every day and am always commuting somewhere on the weekends. I needed a tire with excellent tread wear and decent performance, but was not a heavy tire. My old Coopers were really nice. They had decent tread wear and lots of grip, but were VERY loud and had a harsh ride. I also wanted a nice all season because my future job could land me some where between TX, NM, or CO. I needed a tire that had great dry, wet, and snow performance. The DWSs fit the bill. Most likely, I will be trying them out on the Bullfrog Run for the first really hard run.

They are very squishy, but they are also a tiny bit taller than my old Coopers. I also noticed these have a much more round sidewall compared to my blocky Coopers. That could be the reason for all the rolling over complaints. I would have loved to get a nice summer tire, but I need the all weather assurance. In the future I will get a set of dedicated summer tires and wheels. Until then, I will live with my Contis. They have a 50,000 mile guarantee. Haha.

As for the steering wheel thing. I guess I will deal with it for now and have it rechecked at another shop soon. If I can, I will get up to Sneed's and have them redo the alignment for me.

Girlie,
The issue with the weight was that my Coopers weighed in at about 21lbs a tire. The Contis are 20 and the Yokos were 24. I did not want to add more weight to my corners for now.

[laardilla21]

You'll get used to them. I do have to say, they are quiet!

:warning: warning...these tires go well with gravy!

Jim,

So far, I am loving that fact the most. My Coopers were AWFULLY loud! I also am enjoying the slightly squishy ride for now. I have been pushing them rather hard on the on-ramps (AKA the only twisties in Charleston), and they have been holding very well. I have not had any rolling over issues. Then again, I have not thrown them into a hairpin on the Dragon doing 40 yet either. Haha. In April, we shall see.

[laardilla21]

Just an update for anyone interested.....

I have finally broken in the tires and must say that I am pretty impressed. I am currently running them at the pressure recommended by Continental, which is 35psi. I have not had the opportunity to really throw them into some curves because I live in Charleston, but I have had some nice onramp fun.

Also, I really cannot tell it is wet when it is raining. The have intense wet grip.

The only downsize I can see is the rounder sidewalls giving under hard cornering. The only way I can tell how bad it happens is when I can get back into the mountains for some twisties. As much as I hate it, I may have to ride the slower run during the Bullfrog Run, so I can see what it up. Ugh.