Alignment near Raleigh?

[BlimeyCabrio]

Anyone have a GOOD alignment shop they'd recommend near Raleigh? One that you'd trust with your MINI?

I'm doing Blimey's 5K tire rotation today (just flipped 15K) and noticed a LOT of wear on my inside front right. And it's all happened since my 10K rotation... so I need to get this checked pronto...

[MINI Rog]

I would not use Just Tires in downtown Cary. I think they are less than honest. I have had a lot of work done there and they see to be good at changing their prices depending on what the customer will bear. The quality of their work seems to be fine though.

[HotRodPilot]

This thread has some good info in it: http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10148.new#new (http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=10148.new#new)


At a Honda store I used to be a parts manager at, they sold "five" wheel alignments. Really, they called it just that, a five wheel alignment. With a five wheel alignment instead of a four wheel alignment, they straightened the steering wheel.

A proper alignment should, logically, include keeping the steering wheel "aligned". They charged an extra $10 to do a five instead of a four wheel alignment.

-JWC


I've been having the same problem with the OP on my car. I've taken it to FLOW MINI in Winston Salem for 2 alignments, but the steering wheel is still off. The first time they charged me for the alignment and some other shit they jacked with me (trying to buff out a scratch that I obviously knew couldn't be buffed out). The alignment was still off and the scratch was still there (when I brought it in I thought they'd fix it in their body shop), and had to write a letter to the service manager to get my money back. The second time, I was about to take off on a road trip to Nebraska and didn't feel like holding the wheel at an angle the entire trip. It's still off, but I had to deploy as soon as I got back to NC.

I'm thinking about taking it to Hendrick MINI in Charlotte, but if you know of an awesome alignment shop somewhere in NC, then I'm grabbing the check card and heading out the door as soon as I get back. I thought this problem was just with the MINI suspension geometry, and had no idea it was the incompetence of the mechanics that align the car.

Many thanks to the OP and those that have replied. I was seriously thinking about selling/trading in the car just because it's so annoying. But I still need to find a competant place to do the alignment
-HotRodPilot


Honestly, the best alignment shop I know is Kinston Wheel and Alignment in Kinston NC. They are honest to the extreme.
-JWC

[HerodsMINI]

I have the same question for those who live in the Boone area,since I live in mtn city tn. Has anyone gone to an adjustable front shock mount for caster/camber ? What about toe in/out adjustments ?

[BlimeyCabrio]

Upon Catseye's recommendation, I just made an appointment at Performance Chassis in Cary for Tuesday - since I'm putting on my Koni FSD's and camber plates tomorrow!

I'll post next week and let everyone know how it turns out.

[BlimeyCabrio]

Had my alignment done today by Mark Cooper (great name, eh?) at Performance Chassis - great guy, does outstanding work, doesn't argue with you when you tell him what you need.

I now have 1.8 degrees of negative camber in front, 1.5 in rear, and zero toe all around. Car handles GREAT on the twisties at speed.... and feel perfectly stable the rest of the time. Love it. :)

[BThayer23]

Hey Paul, just saw this thread. Glad you found a good place. I'll post this in case anyone else stumbles upon this thread.

I had good success with McNair Performance in Raleigh. They're located just south of Brier Creek. When you get off 540 onto 70, the road dips down to a stoplight and a gas station. Turn left (east) onto Westgate Road, and it's your first right hand turn. I dropped the car off in the morning and picked it up at night, and they were very communicative and helpful. I think the total was $80. The other car guys in my office say they used to have a race team, and they're very good with European cars.

-Ben

[gregg]

I have read that one can judge the quality of alignments done in a particular shop by a simple question: "how often is your tire balancing machine calibrated?" Once a week is an excellent shop. This applies to both large and small shops. The reasoning behind this is complex, but if they won't tell you, or if they don't know, don't go there. Also, if you want to maximize the chances that you'll get a good alignment, schedule an appointment for the day after the machine is calibrated.

[BThayer23]

Thumbs up to Performance Chassis. I just got my car aligned (and saw Lee's Koopa in the parking lot) and it drives great. Everything to spec, right on the money. No issues with adjustable camber plates and rear arms, definitely familiar with the MINIs. Also, service with a smile: the door says the shop closes at 5pm, but the tech (don't know his name) said he'd be there late and I picked the car up at 5:30pm. One of the guys was working on his 400hp EVO, too. =) I ended up talking with the owner of the shop, and he gave me some valuable advice about tires. I'll definitely go back.

-Ben

[Augie05]

Thanks for the good feedback Ben.

I just got my new suspension installed (thanks Dan !!!!.... love it) and I plan to take my Mini to Performance Chassis on Friday for the alignment. Just booked the appointment yesterday.

[Catseye]

Just an FYI, Mark Cooper also installs suspension components on MINI's, so if you can't make the Thomasville trek, you can get it all done, one-stop.... Coop will be doing mine very soon. I've been dumping cash into the 635 (what a cool car!), So I'll have to wait a little while before I can do this, but not too long.....

[BlimeyCabrio]

Can't wait to see your 635 - I love those cars.

My car is pulling to the left a bit... gotta go see Mark again... getting new tires this weekend, so I'll try to make an appt for next week, before the Tour of Terror... May go back to a little toe-out... at zero toe now (unless something has moved) and don't really love it - tramlines / follows the road contours a bit too much for my taste...

[Augie05]

Please clarify this for me...... What is the trade-off by going with toe-out vs. zero-toe and toe-in? Isn't toe-in the standard OEM set-up?

I was going to ask about zero-toe for my allignment as well.

Thanks,
Doug

[BlimeyCabrio]

Oops - I got it backwards - I want to go back to a little toe IN... for a bit more straight line stability. The car rotates just fine thanks to negative camber, rear swaybar, koni FSDs, USS.... I can deal with dialing a bit of stability back in.

For front:
Toe In - adds straight line stability
Toe Out - increases steering response, at the expense of becoming "twitchier" and more sensitive to road surface, etc.
Zero Toe - compromise... but in my case still too much tramlining

[pinnaclecustomautos]

Blimey,

Mark and I have been working on my car alot lately...And It is working beautiful.
I am going in next week for my third tweek and it will be the last......

Get with Mark about what we have done to mine:

1/32" Total Toe-In in the Front ( I'm Back to 0 front toe....I like it darty)

1/16" Total Toe-In in the Rear

-1.80 degrees Camber Front Right and Left

-1.40 degrees Camber Rear Right and Left

Depending on the size of your Rear Sway bar ( I run a solid 22mm on soft) and how loose you want the rear to be:
Decreasing rear camber makes it more loose
Increasing Rear Bar Stiffness make it more loose
Increasing Rear Tire pressure loosens the rear
Reverse obviously tightens things up.

Hope this helps,
Chris

[BThayer23]

Wow Chris, I'm on pretty much the same page, and the car handles so sweet right now. I came about these settings by reading forum posts and poaching the research and tweaks of others:

0 toe front, rear, and total.
-1.8 camber front
-1.5 camber rear

19mm rear bar on full stiff
36 psi front/rear

I wonder if I should have cambered the rear in even more, like -1.2 or -1.0, but I think that kind of rotation is more autocross than track / off ramps. I haven't noticed excessive tramlining with the zero toe, but I do notice that the car will respond to the pitch of the road (er, the cross-slope). The solution? I have to hold on to the wheel. =) Also, increased front camber with adjustable plates is waaay too much fun. I've started passing people on two-lane off ramps like they were standing still. =)

PS- Paul, you probably do more highway driving than me, so I understand your need for toe-in. It makes the car more settled and easier to drive straight.

[pinnaclecustomautos]

Thayer,

Yeah I think that our alignment settings are all over the money. Just a little tweek here and there for peoples individual driving style. My car handles beautiful with these settings.....really amazing. No understeer, stays flat through the corners even lifts a rear tire when you get really crazy.

Its amazing the only 1/32" toe in in the front changes these cars. It goes from following the road contours to feeling rock solid. Adding the little bit of toe-in in the rear does the same for the rear as well.

Good Luck,
Chris

[BlimeyCabrio]

Yeah, I running almost exactly the same setup a Ben. I'm gonna try your front and rear toe suggestions, Chris -

Yep - I definitely feel the crown of the road surface. Yeah, holding the wheel helps :)
But some weeks I'm driving close to 1,000 highway miles... much of which is in the fast lane (hehe), and my left forearm is getting over-developed constantly applying an extra 3 pounds of upforce to keep the car straight. :)

But even in the right lane with the road pitching the other way, it tends to pull left a bit... so I think I have something funky going on. My front camber is a little different (about 0.15) from left to right (I have fixed plates, so that's probably what it was off by from the factory) - since the plates don't change the difference (add the same camber to both sides) I doubt that's causing all the pull I'm feeling. Or, maybe it is... just amplified by the zero toe (a little toe-in may add enough stability to mask that?)....

[BlimeyCabrio]

So I got my Nitto Neo Gens installed on Saturday. Guess what? Don't need a realignment anymore. Car pulls straight now, and doesn't tramline or pull to the road pitch like it did with the Kumhos. I love it. And the tiny bit of vibration I had in the steering went away (probably a little balance problem).

I love these tires so far... they're incredibly quiet, steering response is very good, braking and corning traction is very good, and they look cool... and they were about $300 cheaper than the Goodyears I was going to get...

[BThayer23]

Nice, glad to hear things settled out Paul. I've never seen those tires, I'll have to check 'em out sometime.

I'm hoping a few vibrations settle out when I get new tires at the end of the month. I might splurge for some Z1 star specs, we'll see.

[pinnaclecustomautos]

Those Nitto Neo Gens are a big favorite in the Honda community for everyday driving with a lowered vehicle. They respond very well to negative camber is what Phantasm tells me you you will see really good wear out them I'm sure....good choice

Can't go wrong with the Dunlop Z1's though.....to hell with tire wear:rolleyes:

Chris

[BlimeyCabrio]

I'm interested in seeing how your Z1's wear... I may try those next... which won't be long, the way I go through tires....

[BThayer23]

Yeah, me too. That's my only concern about the Dunlops - I've managed to wring 25,000 miles, one autocross, and four track days out of my Bridgestone Potenza RE050As. I'm wondering if I'll be as lucky with the Zed ones or if I'll have to change 'em at 15k. I guess I can always go back to the Bridgestones... or maybe these will carry me through to the release of the RE-11's...

[BlimeyCabrio]

Wow.... you're easy on tires... or something....

I'm getting about 15,000 miles out of each set, no matter what I do... with no autocross or track days... just insane mountain runs...

[Catseye]

......I've managed to wring 25,000 miles, one autocross, and four track days out of my Bridgestone Potenza RE050As......
+1 on the Bridgestones. I can't believe the great wear I'm getting from these - 10k miles and 13 days on the track, still got plenty of life, and they grip like mad.

[pinnaclecustomautos]

I think that you will see around 15-20K miles on the Neo Gens. I don't expect to get much tire wear out of the Z1's. They are a 200 tread wear....and I'm amazed that they made that. The compound seams as soft as an RA1 Toyo....so wee will see.

Chris

[BlimeyCabrio]

The Neo Gens performed quite well in the mountains this weekend. A little wear on the shoulders... but not much. And they gripped well and drifted predictably. I drove my fastest Dragon run of all time - by far - and might have been a tad faster on a stickier tire, but not much. They do NOT look like they have 200 hyper-aggressive twisty miles on them (which would be about 10,000 miles of normal daily driving or several track days).

[BThayer23]

Paul, did you have the camber plates last time you ran the Dragon?

[BlimeyCabrio]

Nope. And they make a HUGE difference in the way the car handles in those conditions.

[pinnaclecustomautos]

I really believe that Front Camber and a Little Rear Toe-In make the biggest difference in handling I have found....its like adding a 15% pulley for your suspension:yes4: Its really that noticeable.

Chris

[BlimeyCabrio]

Yeah, I was gonna have a little toe-in added with my re-alignment - but the car settled in with the NeoGens and I don't need an alignment.... it handles great now with zero toe (but didn't with my old tires).

.... so.... a new lesson for me.... different tires may work best with different toe settings...

[pinnaclecustomautos]

After reading up on the Neo Gens.....they were really designed to be ran with higher camber and toe setting. And the tire is not new, but it was well ahead of its time when it was made. I think not many people know about it, but if they did you would see a change over.

Next on my list......is a freshly ordered set of 16x7 SSR Comps in Black....11 lbs each. They should be here around the end of October...made to order.

I can't wait,
Chris

[BThayer23]

Yikes, SSR Comps @ 11 lbs? Those things weigh half as much as my wheels! That's pretty BA.

[pinnaclecustomautos]

Yeah they are pretty crazy.....I am looking at shedding 6 lbs per wheel off of my Mini X Lites which are already the lightest Mini stock wheel they make.....the X Lites I weighed at about 17lbs each. I'm looking forward to these coming in.

Chris

[BlimeyCabrio]

Wow.... I love my R91 wheels... but the concept of shedding 10lbs per corner makes me all goosepimply....